Meeting Vibram’s Steve Dodge at Disc Nation

Today I had the unique experience of getting to spend some time with Steve Dodge, the head of Vibram’s disc golf division.  Steve is a real down to earth dude, and an incredibly nice guy.  He has a genuine enthusiasm for the game and really life in general, so it was a pleasure to get to talk with him about Vibram disc golf and what things they have in store for the future.

This was by no means a formal interview or anything.  I was just a face in the crowd at Disc Nation, who kindly sponsored the Vibram Event here in Austin, TX.  I didn’t know exactly what to expect when I showed up, so I was surprised that Steve was relatively open about some new developments from Vibram that have been intensely speculated about over the last few weeks and months.  I feel like I’m relatively dialed into the disc golf community, both here in Austin and online.  I’m a bit of a disc golf nerd that way I guess, but I actually learned and/or confirmed several things today, and that surprised me a bit.

So here goes, I’ll try to summarize:

The Valley

First off, we got a chance to check out the new Valley.  This is a test disc that Vibram Testers have had in their hands for a couple of weeks now, that wasn’t necessarily new.  But it was actually my first chance to hold and throw one myself.  If you’ve read anything about the Valley test disc, you’ll already know that it’s exclusively a 150 class disc (more on that later), relatively low speed driver, and incredibly understable.  I was able to throw one of the 150’s and can confirm that, yep, as a guy who can throw 400′, you really need to power down on this disc and throw it with extreme hyzer.  Now, having said that, I knew all of this beforehand and on my first attempt I was able to hyzerflip a powered down shot from a standstill for about 290′.  So it’s super glidey.  Steve Dodge said that, based on the feedback they’ve gotten on the Valley, it appears that the disc is more understable than they had anticipated, and that the disc is currently being retooled to hit their target demographic.  However, he also indicated that although the response to the disc isn’t necessarily what they had hoped for, they had gotten quite a bit of positive feedback that the disc seemed to perform well for women, players with less arm speed, and younger players.  So, with that in mind, he said that the disc as it stands today will likely have a future in the disc golf lineup, but that they didn’t know exactly when, and that they hadn’t settled on a name yet.  I suggested that he should call it the “Valley Girl.” I’m pretty sure he was appalled, but maybe it’ll happen anyway.

Interestingly, the 2 Valley’s he brought along with him were 169 grams and 173 grams, respectively.  All of the testers that I’ve seen online have been clamoring to try a “heavy” Valley, and I was under the impression that they didn’t exist.  As it turns out, they don’t exist.  Steve said that the first 10 or so Valleys that were molded came out heavier than the rest, and that this is typical with the first run of a disc, and they are trying to get the molding right and end up using more flashing that strictly necessary.  He said that the waste generated by this process is great enough to make it financially non-viable to create a heavy version of the current Valley mold.  So basically, he said, the Valley will only ever be a 150 class disc.  I’m not sure if this will still be true for the newer, retooled Valley, or just the current mold, but there it is.  Having said that, oh boy, the 173 Valley was awesome.  I got a chance to throw it twice and hyzerflipped it about 350′ from a standstill.  (Disc Nation has markers every hundred feet in their field so you have a very good indication of how far you are throwing)

One final comment on the Valley mold.  Another piece of feedback he talked about was the depth of the rim, which many players felt was too shallow.  For me it was kind of an inception thing.  I didn’t notice it at first, but once he pointed it out to me I couldn’t help but notice.  He said that the retooled Valley would have a deeper rim.  He said it’s really too early to tell how much that will affect the flight, but interesting to see.  My personal speculative guess would be that they are going for more of a Leopard type disc with the Valley.  That’s pure speculation on my part, though, which brings me to the next tease…

Vibram’s Fairway Lineup

The next thing Steve mentioned was that, by the end of the year, Vibram would have what he called a “complete” fairway lineup.  He threw that out in casual conversation, and I asked him later if he could or would qualify that statement.  His answer was coy, and he clearly was playing that card close to his chest, so we’ll have to speculate.  (he did say that the local pros, including Vinnie Miller, Jeremy Mount, and Mike Olse who were also present, would be given full details within the hour)  He’s talked before about having a 4×4 lineup, so it seems clear that Vibram would like to have 4 distance drivers, 4 fairway drivers, 4 mid range discs, and 4 putters.  They already have 4 distance drivers and 4 putters, so the next logical step for a “complete” fairway lineup would be 4 fairway drivers.  With the Ascent and the Trak already in the lineup, the obvious holes are an understable fairway (and we already know the Valley is forthcoming, probably in that Leopard-ish slot), and that leaves what I consider to be the Holy Grail spot in Vibram’s lineup, and that’s the overstable fairway.  Think Vibram Firebird.  Yup, sounds like it’s coming this year!  Very interested in hearing more news about that, but we’re probably still premature.

Okay, admittedly that speculative, but call it educated speculation.

Now, on to the most exciting reveal of the day…

Floating Discs!

We got to hold, ask questions about, and throw 2 of the newest rubber offerings from Vibram, and they float!  The rubber for the floating discs was distinctly different than the other rubbers Vibram currently produces.  Currently they have X-Link Medium, Firm, and Soft.  They also have the Glow rubber that they run during the winter.  The Float rubber was a little floppy feeling, and I would say a little softer than medium in my opinion.  And/or if you’ve held a light, say 160 Lace, it felt kind of like that to me.  Definitely floppier than what I’m used to from the medium rubbers.  But certainly not like a limp noodle that you’d get from a soft.  Admittedly, Steve said that these were an earlier run of the prototype Float rubber, and that the process has been improved, so I don’t know how the ones we got to hold will compare to the eventual test discs, much less the production release.

Now, as for the discs themselves, Steve confirmed that every mold will be available in Float.  But interestingly, the weights will run much lower than I thought.  He said that the discs would run between 125 – 166 grams.  He then proceeded to pull out a 156 unLace, and a 137 Obex.

So, in addition to floating, it seems that the Float rubbers will be much lighter than their other X-Link counterparts.  I was initially disappointed at this news, having tried Innova’s Blizzard plastics, and in general lighter discs from other manufacturers, and have found them to be universally more understable, or at the very least more inclined to flip over than their heavier counterparts.  But as he was introducing the discs, Steve was quick to reassure us that, surprisingly, they retained all the stability that their mold was intended to have.

I was pretty dubious, but low and behold, I was able to try both of them, and darn it if they weren’t much more stable than I was expecting them to be.  I tried the 137 Obex first, and, preparing myself the way you might expect to throw a 137 gram midrange, I powered down a little and threw the disc with some hyzer, expecting it to flip up and glide like the Valley.  But no!  It actually held it’s line the entire time.  I was so surprised I ran out to retrieve it and brought it straight over to Vinnie Miller and asked him to throw it.  Vinnie is a local pro, and sponsored by Vibram, so I trusted his form a lot more than I trusted mine.  I even warned him beforehand (he had never thrown one either) that it was going to be more stable than he expected, and his reaction was exactly the same as mine.  His throw held the line and didn’t flip.  Pretty amazing for a 137 gram disc!

Here’s a video of me throwing the Float Obex:  (please excuse any form problems, I do what I can)

I’ve never cared much for the unLace, because it’s SO understable, but I wanted to give the Float one a chance, and I’m happy to say I was able to hyzerflip it for 400′ as well.  (although I did flip it and lose control of it on my next throw)

At this point, I’m really, really excited to try a Float O-Lace or Solace.  Or man, imagine that new Vibram Firebird in Float rubber.  An overstable driver in this rubber sounds like it would be a blast to throw, and Steve definitely confirmed that they would be available.  (well, not the Vibram Firebird, but yes on the O-Lace and the Solace)

Phew, okay, that about covers everything we learned from Steve Dodge today.  Again, he was a great guy and it was a great time down at Disc Nation.  Did I mention that he bought everybody pizza, too?  Oh, and all attendees got a nice parting gift:

Seriously, how awesome is that?

Thanks again Mr. Dodge!  Hope to see you out on the course someday!

(on that note, our own club president Chase H has an invite in fact to play a round with Mr. Dodge this weekend… will he get permission from his wife?  We’ll see…)